Curse

Schmerdro · Dec 14, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

All of the following builds are supposed to be simple (something that the AI can use), flexible, and generally stay the same way as they were made by Arena-Net. Each build has skills only from its primary profession, a Resurrection Signet, and at least 3 skills from its respective campaign (except in the case of Eye of the North, where the minimum is just 1 skill). Also, every build must use skills that are either Core or specific to the respective campaign, except in the case of Eye of the North, where henchmen can have any skills. Lastly, I made one exception that every Blood Henchman has Blood Ritual even though it is available only in Prophecies; the reasoning is simply that Blood Ritual is very important and Henchmen use it very well.

Any feedback is very welcome as I will update this post either if some skills are changed or if a consensus is reached on a certain skill change. Just please keep in mind that these are NOT hero builds, they are henchman builds and I would prefer to follow the skill guideline which I described earlier.

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Prophecies

Stefan, Sword:[build pve prof=W Sword=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Hundred Blades][Sever Artery][Galrath Slash][Power Attack][Riposte][Rush][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Little Thom, Axe:[build pve prof=W Axe=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Eviscerate][Disrupting Chop][Executioner's Strike][Cyclone Axe][To the Limit!][Rush][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Devona, Hammer:[build pve prof=W Hammer=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Earth Shaker][Crude Swing][Crushing Blow][Counter Blow][Mighty Blow][Rush][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Aidan/Reyna, Bow:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Incendiary Arrows][Distracting Shot][Penetrating Attack][Ignite Arrows][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Favorable Winds][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Alesia/Mhenlo, Healer:[build pve prof=Mo Healing=12+1+1 Divine=12+1][Word of Healing][Dwayna's Kiss][Signet of Devotion][Vigorous Spirit][Healing Seed][Divine Healing][Remove Hex][Restore Life][/build]
Lina, Protector:[build pve prof=Mo Protection=12+1+1 Divine=12+1 Healing=3][Protective Spirit][Aura of Faith][Shielding Hands][Signet of Devotion][Aegis][Divine Healing][Mend Ailment][Restore Life][/build]

Claude/Eve, Blood:[build pve prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Blood Ritual][Soul Leech][Barbed Signet][Vampiric Gaze][Shadow Strike][Mark of Subversion][Strip Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Dunham, Domination:[build pve prof=Me Domination=12+1+1 Inspiration=11+1 Fast=6+1][Wastrel's Worry][Power Drain][Empathy][Shatter Hex][Chaos Storm][Drain Enchantment][Mantra of Recall][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Orion/Cynn, Fire:[build pve prof=E Fire=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Rodgort's Invocation][Searing Heat][Incendiary Bonds][Fireball][Elemental Attunement][Fire Attunement][Aura of Restoration][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Factions

Lukas/Seaguard Eli, Sword:[build pve prof=W Sword=12+1+1 Strength=8+1 Tactics=10+1][Dragon Slash][Standing Slash][Sun and Moon Slash][Tiger Stance]["Shields Up!"]["For Great Justice!"][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Talon, Sword:[build pve prof=W Sword=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Quivering Blade][Silverwing Slash][Sun and Moon Slash][Tiger Stance]["Watch Yourself!"]["For Great Justice!"][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Devona, Hammer:[build pve prof=W Hammer=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Enraged Smash][Counter Blow][Mighty Blow][Yeti Smash][Tiger Stance]["For Great Justice!"][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Aidan/Zho/Yuun, Bow:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Distracting Shot][Melandru's Shot][Sundering Attack][Needling Shot][Read the Wind][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Aurora, Beastmaster:[build pve prof=R Expertise=12+1 Beastmastery=12+1+1][Poisonous Bite][Savage Pounce][Pounce][Bestial Mauling][Heal as One][Call of Haste][Charm Animal][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Daeman, Interrupter:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Broad Head Arrow][Needling Shot][Sundering Attack][Apply Poison][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Favorable Winds][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Danika/Jamei/Sister Tai, Healer:[build pve prof=Mo Healing=12+1+1 Divine=12+1][Boon Signet][Signet of Rejuvenation][Healing Seed][Gift of Health][Dwayna's Sorrow][Heaven's Delight][Deny Hexes][Resurrection Chant][/build]
Karl/Gita, Protector:[build pve prof=Mo Protection=12+1+1 Divine=12+1 Healing=3][Life Sheath][Spirit Bond][Shielding Hands][Signet of Devotion][Aegis][Heaven's Delight][Deny Hexes][Resurrection Chant][/build]

Eve, Blood:[build pve prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Blood Ritual][Icy Veins][Vampiric Gaze][Vampiric Swarm][Jaundiced Gaze][Lifebane Strike][Strip Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Brutus, Blood:[build pve prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Vampiric Spirit][Vampiric Gaze][Vampiric Swarm][Dark Pact][Jaundiced Gaze][Strip Enchantment][Blood Bond][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Sheena/Su, Death:[build pve prof=N Death=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Discord][Bitter Chill][Deathly Swarm][Rising Bile][Putrid Explosion][Gaze of Contempt][Taste of Pain][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Erys Vasburg, Domination:[build pve prof=Me Domination=12+1+1 Inspiration=11+1 Fast=6+1][Power Leech][Power Drain][Drain Enchantment][Complicate][Overload][Empathy][Shatter Hex][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Lo Sha/Hala, Illusion:[build pve prof=Me Illusion=12+1+1 Inspiration=11+1 Fast=6+1][Power Leech][Power Drain][Drain Enchantment][Clumsiness][Arcane Conundrum][Conjure Nightmare][Accumulated Pain][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Cynn/Argo, Fire:[build pve prof=E Fire=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Teinai's Heat][Breath of Fire][Meteor][Fireball][Energy Boon][Fire Attunement][Aura of Restoration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Vhang, Air:[build pve prof=E Air=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Shock Arrow][Lightning Orb][Lightning Hammer][Energy Boon][Enervating Charge][Air Attunement][Aura of Restoration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Kai Ying, Earth:[build pve prof=E Earth=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward Against Melee][Unsteady Ground][Churning Earth][Dragon's Stomp][Earth Attunement][Aura of Restoration][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Emi/Panaku/Mai, Disruptor:[build pve prof=A Dagger=11+1+1 Shadow=10+1 Critical=10+1][Beguiling Haze][Jagged Strike][Wild Strike][Critical Strike][Heart of Shadow][Shadow Refuge][Return][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Nika, Tank:[build pve prof=A Dagger=11+1+1 Shadow=10+1 Critical=10+1][Flashing Blades][Jagged Strike][Wild Strike][Critical Strike][Way of Perfection][Shadow Refuge][Return][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Aeson/Gai, Healer:[build pve prof=Rt Restoration=12+1+1 Spawning=12+1][Soothing Memories][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Weapon of Warding][Life][Recuperation][Attuned Was Songkai][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]
Chiyo, Healer:[build pve prof=Rt Communing=11+1+1 Spawning=10+1 Restoration=10+1][Soothing Memories][Protective Was Kaolai][Weapon of Shadow][Union][Shadowsong][Ritual Lord][Boon of Creation][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

Nightfall

Devona, Hammer:[build pve prof=W Hammer=12+1+1 Strength=12+1][Enraging Charge][Magehunter Strike][Counter Blow][Counterattack][Mighty Blow][Flail][Lion's Comfort][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Aidan, Bow:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Savage Shot][Crossfire][Arcing Shot][Expert's Dexterity][Read the Wind][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Mhenlo, Healer:[build pve prof=Mo Healing=12+1+1 Divine=12+1][Words of Comfort][Orison of Healing][Signet of Devotion][Healing Seed][Watchful Healing][Healer's Boon][Remove Hex][Renew Life][/build]
Kihm, Protector:[build pve prof=Mo Protection=12+1+1 Divine=12+1 Healing=3][Zealous Benediction][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][Shielding Hands][Dismiss Condition][Signet of Devotion][Aegis][Renew Life][/build]

Eve, Blood:[build pve prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Blood Ritual][Signet of Sorrow][Vampiric Gaze][Blood of the Aggressor][Grenth's Balance][Strip Enchantment][Signet of Lost Souls][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Odurra, Domination:[build pve prof=Me Domination=12+1+1 Inspiration=11+1 Fast=6+1][Power Drain][Drain Enchantment][Cry of Frustration][Visions of Regret][Empathy][Mistrust][Web of Disruption][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Cynn, Fire:[build pve prof=E Fire=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Glyph of Restoration][Savannah Heat][Liquid Flame][Fireball][Meteor][Fire Storm][Fire Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Herta, Earth:[build pve prof=E Earth=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Glyph of Restoration][Ward Against Melee][Sandstorm][Ebon Hawk][Stoning][Glowstone][Earth Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Sogolon, Motivation:[build pve prof=P Leadership=10+1 Spear=11+1 Motivation=10+1+1][Spear of Lightning][Merciless Spear][Song of Purification][Chorus of Restoration][Signet of Synergy][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Restoration][Signet of Return][/build]

Gehraz, Earth:[build pve prof=D Scythe=11+1+1 Mysticism=11+1 Earth=8+1][Crippling Sweep][Reaper's Sweep][Mystic Sweep][Armor of Sanctity][Mystic Regeneration][Heart of Fury][Faithful Intervention][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Eye of the North

Devona, Hammer:[build pve prof=W Hammer=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1][Enraging Charge]["None Shall Pass!"][Backbreaker][Bull's Strike][Pulverizing Smash][Counter Blow][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Talon, Sword:[build pve prof=W Sword=12+1+1 Strength=12+1][Distracting Blow][Crippling Slash][Knee Cutter][Gash][Silverwing Slash][Tiger Stance][Lion's Comfort][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Aidan, Bow:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Barrage][Volley][Distracting Shot][Lightning Reflexes][Favorable Winds][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Zho, Interrupt:[build pve prof=R Expertise=11+1+1 Marksmanship=11+1 Wilderness=8+1][Broad Head Arrow][Distracting Shot][Penetrating Attack][Rapid Fire][Favorable Winds][Troll Unguent][Antidote Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Mhenlo, Healer:[build pve prof=Mo Healing=12+1+1 Divine=12+1][Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Signet of Rejuvenation][Healing Seed][Vigorous Spirit][Divine Healing][Cure Hex][Resurrection Chant][/build]
Lina, Protector:[build pve prof=Mo Protection=12+1+1 Divine=12+1 Healing=3][Peace and Harmony][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][Shielding Hands][Aura of Stability][Aegis][Heaven's Delight][Resurrection Chant][/build]

Eve, Blood:[build pve prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Blood Ritual][Icy Veins][Signet of Sorrow][Vampiric Gaze][Blood of the Aggressor][Foul Feast][Strip Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Lo Sha, Illusion:[build pve prof=Me Illusion=12+1+1 Inspiration=11+1 Fast=6+1][Tease][Drain Enchantment][Power Drain][Clumsiness][Wandering Eye][Arcane Conundrum][Accumulated Pain][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Cynn, Fire:[build pve prof=E Fire=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinai's Heat][Liquid Flame][Mark of Rodgort][Energy Blast][Fire Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]
Herta, Earth:[build pve prof=E Earth=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Ward of Weakness][Ward Against Melee][Sandstorm][Churning Earth][Eruption][Earth Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Lishy · Dec 14, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Looks so sexy, but I'm positive ANET won't implement it, or we won't be pugging at all

Age · Dec 14, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

The Protection hench don't have [aegis] and I would still like [charge] on the warriors as well self heal maybe.

dilan155 · Dec 14, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

i would love this to be the standard bars so much but i doubt a-net will change it even though it will be very easy change to implement.

turbo234 · Dec 14, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Cynn, Fire:[build prof=E Fire=12+1+1 Energy=12+1][Glyph of Restoration][Savannah Heat][Liquid Flame][Fireball][Meteor][Fireball][Fire Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]

because 2 fireballs iz pro

jackinthe · Dec 14, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

gw is an mmo.

1. get a friend.
2. use 6 heroes.

if you have to go it alone, taking 4 hench doesnt really matter that much.

Lishy · Dec 14, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackinthe

gw is an mmo.

1. get a friend.
2. use 6 heroes.

if you have to go it alone, taking 4 hench doesnt really matter that much.

gw is a corpg.

1. get a friend OR use AI
2. use heroes or henchies for non-filled slots

if you have to go alone, taking 4 hench really matters a lot but most of the damage comes from you and your heroes

Konig Des Todes · Dec 14, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Lots of scrolling...

Ok, only things I got issues with:

Change Talon's Faction build, too close to Lucas/Eli. Eli and Talon are in the same spot a lot.

Change Eve's or Brutus' build, they are in the same outposts no need for doubles.

Change Erys' elite. I like mesmers a bit, but being forced to only one elite in all areas, boring.

Give Sogolon a different elite, such as [[The Power is Yous!]

Change Cynn's Nightfall build. Two Fireballs? lol

Gehraz is scythe not earth, but with that build, wouldn't he be better off with an Earth Prayers elite? :x

Give Zho (EN) an attack skill in exchange for one of those interrupts. The elite is enough of interruption but another one is ok.

While I like your additions of Resurrection Signets in the henchmen bars... a resurrection signet on every one sounds like overdoing it a bit. How I see it, attackers (at least melee - warriors assassins and dervishes) don't need resurrection signets. Their job is to keep the enemy busy not stop whenever a party member fell.

Remove the melee's resurrection signets, and the other changes, and I'll /sign. Until then /sign for the concept.

Marverick · Dec 14, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Those Monk bars are horrible...

Blessed Light is not used very well by heroes.
Healing Breeze sucks.
Restore Life on a Monk... they'll be running around and onto the frontlines spending 8 seconds rezing someone.

The blood necros need Order of Pain and Dark Fury. Vamp gaze and all that stuff is really useless.

Also henchmen need runes... I would like a minor for all of their used attributes, +1 on the head of whatever they specialize in, and a minor vigor, at the very least.

Schmerdro · Dec 15, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The Protection hench don't have [aegis] and I would still like [charge] on the warriors as well self heal maybe.

I don't think Henchmen would use Aegis when it's appropriate, nor would they chain it... so I thought Guardian would be easier to use.
I remembering reading how a lot of people complained that Charge is useless since it's not important in battle. Also, I try to diversify the elites because I find having Charge Warriors in every campaign to be quite boring.
All Warrior builds already have a self-heal.

Oops, I didn't notice she had 2 Fireballs XD I'll replace one with... um... Flare I guess. Not a lot of choice in Core/NF skills

Azazel The Assassin, very good observations!

I'll change Talon's build to this: [build prof=W Sword=11+1+1 Strength=10+1 Tactics=10+1]["Coward!"][Silverwing Slash][Sun and Moon Slash][Tiger Stance]["Watch Yourself!"]["For Great Justice!"][Healing Signet][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I'll change Brutus's build to this: [build prof=N Blood=12+1+1 Soul=12+1][Vampiric Spirit][Vampiric Gaze][Vampiric Swarm][Dark Pact][Jaundiced Gaze][Strip Enchantment][Blood Bond][Resurrection Signet][/build]

I'll change Erys's elite to [Lyssa's Aura] since he needs more energy management and he's likely to maintain that enchantment with [Overload]. And now that I think about, I'll give him [Power Drain] instead of [Cry of Frustration] so he has just as much energy management as Lo Sha/Hala.

I don't know about Sogolon. ["The Power Is Yours!"] is good for triggering echoes so if I get it, I would also feel like adding some echoes but there isn't enough room for them. Sogolon is already leaning towards healing, so I wanted him to have some condition removal since Paragons are good at that. [Song of Purification] needs 12 points of investment so I'd have to lower Leadership but ["It's just a flesh wound."] would synergize with [Energizing Chorus]. For now, I think I'll wait and read more opinions about this.

Gehraz looks fine the way he is, to me. I just think that all Dervishes should invest 8 points in Mysticism because it's godly in PvE. [Ebon Dust Aura] is too specialized, I want to keep his build flexible, and [Vow of Strength] requires too much team coordination since enemies shouldn't be affected by any conditions for it to work.

You're right about Zho, I'll replace [Savage Shot] with [Penetrating Attack].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

a resurrection signet on every one sounds like overdoing it a bit

I completely agree since I never use them (I always prefer a hard rez if any), but I don't want to change these builds too much from what Arena-Net made. I also want to keep these builds simple, too many skills to choose from and it might get too complicated for henchmen. I just don't think it's significant enough to modify.

To what Marverick said:
Keep in mind that this isn't about making the best builds in GW, we're just making decent builds that look like fun. That's why I made all those restrictions at the top of the original post. And obviously, saying that something "sucks" doesn't really help; I would appreciate if you could offer some suggestions instead.

Oh, and Healing Breeze gives 324 healing (with a +20% enchantment mod) for 10 energy. Personally, I think that's quite nice.
I agree, I would never use [Restore Life] nor [Renew Life], but if I take those out, I'd have to get [Resurrect] instead. Eh, that's actually not a bad idea... I'll wait for more opinions on this, I want to keep these build varied and similar to the ones already made by Arena-Net.

I don't like Order of Pain and Dark Fury on a henchman bar because it's too specific and specialized. A team of spell-casters wouldn't gain anything, I want to keep the builds flexible.

Yeah, it would be awesome if Henchmen could also have decent gear, but I want to keep this discussion focused on the important things first.

IronSheik · Dec 15, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Those Monk bars are horrible...

Blessed Light is not used very well by heroes.
Healing Breeze sucks.
Restore Life on a Monk... they'll be running around and onto the frontlines spending 8 seconds rezing someone.

The blood necros need Order of Pain and Dark Fury. Vamp gaze and all that stuff is really useless.

Also henchmen need runes... I would like a minor for all of their used attributes, +1 on the head of whatever they specialize in, and a minor vigor, at the very least.

He did say these aren't HERO bars, they are henchman, complain more

Konig Des Todes · Dec 15, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Oops, I didn't notice she had 2 Fireballs XD I'll replace one with... um... Flare I guess. Not a lot of choice in Core/NF skills

A quick look at the the Priest of Balthazar: [[Glowing Gaze] would be much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Azazel The Assassin, very good observations!

-snip Talon's Build-

-snip Brutus' Build-

I see nothign wrong with Brutus' new build. Talon's build, I think having [[Hundred Blades] would be better, but that might be seen as too op for a henchman so, go with [[Quivering Blade].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

-snip Erys' changes-

-snip Sologon's changes-

-snip Gehraz's changes-

-snip Zho's changes-

Erys: Sounds fine.

Sologon: With [[Angelic Bond]'s change, that would make a good Leadership elite.

Gehraz: My point was more the lack of Scythe attacks. In my opinion, [[Veil of Thorns] is not needed that much. Along with the resurrection signet, so those - or at least one of those - can be changed to an attack skill. Personally, I like Gehraz how he is.

Zho: That works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

I completely agree since I never use them (I always prefer a hard rez if any), but I don't want to change these builds too much from what Arena-Net made. I also want to keep these builds simple, too many skills to choose from and it might get too complicated for henchmen. I just don't think it's significant enough to modify.

Anet's original set up was attackers get resurrection signets. So it isn't going too far with just switching it around, from attackers (minus paragons) to casters. Also, due to henchmen having specific builds, they can get special AI set just to those builds. I.e., when to use specific skills, when not to use specific skills, what order to use skills, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Oh, and Healing Breeze gives 324 healing (with a +20% enchantment mod) for 10 energy. Personally, I think that's quite nice.
I agree, I would never use [Restore Life] nor [Renew Life], but if I take those out, I'd have to get [Resurrect] instead. Eh, that's actually not a bad idea... I'll wait for more opinions on this, I want to keep these build varied and similar to the ones already made by Arena-Net.

I personally like [[Renew Life] due to its healing affect. But that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Yeah, it would be awesome if Henchmen could also have decent gear, but I want to keep this discussion focused on the important things first.

This is definably something to bring up later on, but I agree, build changes first.

Oh, and a clarification: Elites only get put in at level 20, so prior to that, they will have 7 skills.

Also, Faction henchmen that are in Raisu Palace and Imperial Sanctum need to have a "kick out" skill or have 7 skills with the elite - as they get the celestial skill in the last two missions.

Schmerdro · Dec 15, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

But Glowing Gaze would need another skill that makes foes Burn.

I liked [Quivering Blade] too, I just didn't think it was very Tengu-like since Tengu seem very non-shaking or non-trembling kind of creatures. Anyway, yeah, more damage-dealing makes sense instead of more utility stuff, so I'll put Quivering in there.

To me, [Angelic Bond] seems highly conditional (hopefully the healers won't let an ally's health go fatally low) and with a high recharge (30 seconds with only a 10 seconds duration). I liked the Motivation elites a lot better XD

Gehraz doesn't have much energy management so I thought 2 attack skills with 4 and 8 seconds recharge times would be enough. But you are right that Veil of Thorns is too conditional so I'll replace it with [Crippling Sweep].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Oh, and a clarification: [...]

That is correct. For the last 2 missions in Factions, one of the non-elite skills in every henchman's bar will have to be replaced with the Celestial Skill. I just think these are quite easy decisions and should simply be left to Arena-Net.

bhavv · Dec 15, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

While I appreciate your efforts, there a just a few problems here.

1) Heroes and Hench chain Aegis perfectly, there is absolutely no reason to remove PVE's most powerful non elite prot spell from them.

2) The B Light monk has Gift of Health and two other healing skills. This is a bad thing. So is Healing Breeze on HM, there are better skills to take. Overall I do not like your monk bars, but most of the others are decent.

3) I prefer Erys Vasburg as he currently is. He is the best mesmer hench available in the game.

4) Charge Warriors are good to reduce the time taken to vanquish.

5) Sogolon is better as a full heal / support anthem / chant paragon as having extra party wide skills in a team of 8 is more significant then a couple of spear attacks.

6) EOTN henchmen dont need changing, except for one of the monks to remove the pairing of ZB and WoH. I would prefer a boon signet prot hench as opposed to life sheath because in PVE, dismiss condition is the best condition removal skill as it doubles up with a decent heal, and it saves an elite slot. Boon Signet prot (as in my thread) would be better for 'red bars up', and with better energy management using the signet.
It is very hard to make a perfect and suitable bar for use everywhere in the game, but we would even be better off with good henchman skill bars made entirely from core skills throughout the game then we are with the current henchmen.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 15, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

But Glowing Gaze would need another skill that makes foes Burn.

Doesn't need burning. Just benefits from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

I liked [Quivering Blade] too, I just didn't think it was very Tengu-like since Tengu seem very non-shaking or non-trembling kind of creatures. Anyway, yeah, more damage-dealing makes sense instead of more utility stuff, so I'll put Quivering in there.

There is also [[Auspicious Parry] to think about as well. Although, with going with the "tengu" feel, [[Primal Rage] would fit, but I don't know if people want an elite version of insta kill on a henchman's bar.

If going with Auspicious Parry, then we should change out Tiger Stance, replacing it with perhaps [["You Will Die!'] - the extra adrenaline can make up for the slower attack speed. Or can have [[Frenzy] instead as long as the AI is set to use Auspicious Parry when Talon starts to take damage - therefore removing the double damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Gehraz doesn't have much energy management so I thought 2 attack skills with 4 and 8 seconds recharge times would be enough. But you are right that Veil of Thorns is too conditional so I'll replace it with [Crippling Sweep].

If energy is an issue, wouldn't it make more sense to use [[Lyssa's Assault].

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

1) Heroes and Hench chain Aegis perfectly, there is absolutely no reason to remove PVE's most powerful non elite prot spell from them.

agreed, when it is the same skill, henchmen can easily chain skills (two wars with Charge gets me almost perma Charge!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

3) I prefer Erys Vasburg as he currently is. He is the best mesmer hench available in the game.

I disagree, Odurra is a better mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

4) Charge Warriors are good to reduce the time taken to vanquish.

True, but would you have speed between mobs (therefore reducing time to recover henchmen energy - which you cannot see) or would you have more damage to hasten the time it takes to kill a mob (therefore requiring less energy from monks)? I go with the later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

5) Sogolon is better as a full heal / support anthem / chant paragon as having extra party wide skills in a team of 8 is more significant then a couple of spear attacks.

One or two spear attacks - especially those that add conditions - is not bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

6) EOTN henchmen dont need changing, except for one of the monks to remove the pairing of ZB and WoH. I would prefer a boon signet prot hench as opposed to life sheath because in PVE, dismiss condition is the best condition removal skill as it doubles up with a decent heal, and it saves an elite slot. Boon Signet prot (as in my thread) would be better for 'red bars up', and with better energy management using the signet.
It is very hard to make a perfect and suitable bar for use everywhere in the game, but we would even be better off with good henchman skill bars made entirely from core skills throughout the game then we are with the current henchmen.

I see your points here, and I can agree. except for Lina, EN bars are fairly good. Although I think Aiden should be changed to a conditioner in EN.

upier · Dec 15, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

generally stay the same way as they were made by Arena-Net.

That's your first problem right there!
[Enfeebling Blood][rend enchantment][faintheartedness] > ALL the necro builds you listed.
The guys at A.Net messed up. So if the plan is to fix this - let's do it the right way, rather then just make thier shit stink less!

The second problem:
The things that work in HM, work in NM.
The things that work in NM, don't always work in HM.
Best evidenced by "OMG!!11 Let's add eles for WTF-PWN-damage!!!11!"
And in that spirit - no [blinding Flash] on the air ele!??!?!?

And third:
Skills change.
This is something we'd need to accept and embrace. And that is why - this would be the BEST way to balance PvE. You DELETE PvE(-only) skills - and nerf and buff EVERYTHING the way PvP guys want it!
You don't take PvE into consideration in the SLIGHTEST here.
And after you are done with that - you sit down and look what did those changes cause in PvE and then you modify the static PvE bars. You raised damage on certain skills - well then , you might want to look if the bosses using those skills doing double damage didn't get out of control. You killed of certain skills? Then you remove those skills of hench bars!

(Oh and [Power Leech] sucks. It's a 20 sec recharge skill that interrupts spells - and steals energy. If you don't know what tu run - [E-Surge] or [Mantra of recovery] out of the core skills. And [CoF] should be on ANY mesmer bar - regardless of the hench's specialization.)

(Double oh! Don't get me wrong - there are a LOT more issues in the bars listed - but I'd first suggest to re-think your plan first! It doesn't make sense to change one skill on the bar - if the WHOLE idea of the bar is wrong!)

bhavv · Dec 15, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Oh yea, I forget about Odura with VoR, prior to that buff, Erys was better.

Paragons only need to be offensive if you have more then one, and dont have 5 other damage dealers. Overall, I like 5 dedicated damage dealers, two monks, plus a support para.

I agree that Charge on a damage warrior is a waste, I like to take a paragon with charge and fall back on speed runs, now there is also Incoming.

In NF, I always use the monks, para and earth hench. I would be happy with a decent similar backline in Factions (using rits instead of paras), and prophecies just needs major updating.

Evil Neato · Dec 15, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I'd rather leave hench alone and just allow however many heroes people wanted for PvE.

daze · Dec 15, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

don't the henchie skill bars differ between HM and NM? Although your massive skillbar suggestion is exceedingly awesome in its entirety, i think you should post the NM and the HM suggestion of each henchman.

Schmerdro · Dec 15, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

To bhavv:

K, 2 "for" and 1 "against" so I'll replace Guardian with Aegis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The B Light monk has Gift of Health and two other healing skills. This is a bad thing.

I thought they worked perfectly since [Gift of Health] wouldn't disable the skills from Divine Favor and the signets are just for energy management. I'll replace Healing Breeze with [Healing Seed].

I'll change Erys's elite back to Power Leech.

I don't want every Warrior in every campaign to use "Charge!" though... I'll wait and read more opinions on this.

All builds on PvX wiki with a Paragon primary have at least one spear attack. But can you think of anything specific to replace Energizing Chorus, Leader's Comfort and Cautery Signet? Which of the Motivation elites do you like the most?

For Mhenlo, I didn't like [Orison of Healing] because [Word of Healing] and [Patient Spirit] are better in pretty much every way. [Healing Touch] is suicide, [Divine Intervention] is questionable because of its long recharge, and [Deny Hexes] is inefficient because he has no other Divine Favor skills.

To Azazel The Assassin:

Flare does more damage than Glowing Gaze so, without the Burning, I think Flare is unquestionably better.

[Auspicious Parry] is too defensive and [Primal Rage] is suicide on a henchman. Just ignore what I said about how skills "feel" XD I like Quivering Blade

[Lyssa's Assault] is more like a free attack skill more than energy management, and I think it's recharge is too long to be considered a useful damage-increaser. I'm very happy with what Gehraz has right now.

I'm surprised that none of you still have made a crack about Lo Sha using [Tease] :P

To daze:
No they don't differ at all. The only change is that Henchmen use their full skillbar only outside of the newbie training area and in Hard Mode. Everywhere else, they just use fewer skills.